This is an appendix to my review for The New York Sun of the new book by UCSF child psychiatrist Dr. Jack Turban, "Free to Be: Understanding Kids & Gender Identity."
Turban was on the Dr. Mike podcast for almost 2 hours. Most answers were “it’s complicated.” Every mention of studies discrediting his views was met with, “we have to look at the author and funding. They’re very biased against gender medicine.” Look in the mirror, dude.
I have read or listened to countless Turban interviews. But I must admit, I lacked the patience to listen to all 2 hours and 57 minutes of that interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbriqWx0w7U
Last week I renewed by paid subscription to this substack and for all the great work you do on X (twitter).
BTW, I noticed that political advocate Erin Reed did not mention on X the New York Times article exposing GLAAD's chief extravagant spending..........And didn't Reed recently get an award from them?
It's really amazing to me the degree of audience capture that some people have and how they seem to suffer 0 consequences for huge sins of omissions/commissions and outright lying.
When this gender stuff goes the way of recovered memories and multiple personalities, will Turban go down with the ship, or slink quietly away to emerge years later, pretending he never said all of the things he said?
There is a sentence in the Hannah Barnes screenshot that raises a lot of questions for me. 20% had changes in identity after surgery? Is there more detail available?
(237) LONG TERM FOLLOW-UP OF GENDER AND SEXUALITY IN EARLY TREATED TRANSGENDER ADOLESCENTS (de Rooy Frédérique et al., 2023, abstract): Dutch protocol long term outcome. 101 participants: “Transgender adolescents who started medical treat-ment between 1989-2000 and were treated with gender-affirming hormone treatment (GAHT), as well as transgender adolescents who received gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist and subsequently started GAHT at least 9 years ago" "In 81.2% the gender identity remained stable over time."
Thank you! Yeah, this abstract is pretty high level. I would think identity changes in almost 20% of the treated group would/could be really significant, but details needed.
Thank you for this great critique, with the contradictions and inaccuracies spelled out and documented. Why is anyone who has looked at this topic supporting the people pushing these interventions or the US policies for providing them?!??
Like a Monty Python figure who no matter what happens insists on his position, then once off the scene is decried as a “senseless waste of human life”.
He’s a member of the profession which doesn’t understand cutting off genitals to assuage a cross-sex mind spirit doesn’t work. Surgery didn’t work with trepanning, didn’t work with lobotomy, won’t work with something even more disconnected.
Psychiatry is the origin and propagation of this nonsense. Cannot be criticized, regulated or stopped.
If we back away from the conflict and dispute about gender ideology and simply state the situation in direct terms, we are talking about deeply disturbed children who want their bodies mutilated and healthy parts removed.
Why should this be regarded any differently from Body Integrity Identity Disorder, where people have convictions that entire limbs are cumbersome and want them amputated?
The framing of this self-evident malady (or cult) as civil rights or social justice is grotesque. Complicating it with vast and hastily accepted falsehoods is violently dishonest.
The only treatment for this fad should be psychiatric reconciliation with biological sex. Advocates like Michele Forcier belong in prison.
> "This young trans woman (biological male) started puberty blockers at 12, by this point is on cross-sex hormones ..."
"transwomen" -- compound word like "crayfish" which ain't:
Wiktionary: ".... However, [transwoman] is often associated with views (notably gender-critical feminism) that hold that transgender women are not women, and thus require a separate word from woman to describe them. For this reason many transgender people find transwoman offensive."
But likewise with your "trans girls" -- the adjective-noun pairs are part and parcel of the rather odious fraud being perpetrated by transactivists and by various so-called "doctors".
In a similar vein (vain), the use of phrases like "gender affirming care" -- particularly without 24-pt scare quotes, and bracketed qualifications like "AKA: sterilization and castration of autistic and dysphoric children" -- are profoundly odious euphemisms masking what should be seen as crimes of the century.
No doubt "adults" are probably entitled to do that to themselves, but tricking children into "consenting" to such procedures is an absolute scandal.
You might note that a "social psychologist with a clinical background", Pamela Paresky, has now, commendably, taken to the use of such scare quotes:
Turban was on the Dr. Mike podcast for almost 2 hours. Most answers were “it’s complicated.” Every mention of studies discrediting his views was met with, “we have to look at the author and funding. They’re very biased against gender medicine.” Look in the mirror, dude.
I have read or listened to countless Turban interviews. But I must admit, I lacked the patience to listen to all 2 hours and 57 minutes of that interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbriqWx0w7U
Last week I renewed by paid subscription to this substack and for all the great work you do on X (twitter).
BTW, I noticed that political advocate Erin Reed did not mention on X the New York Times article exposing GLAAD's chief extravagant spending..........And didn't Reed recently get an award from them?
It's really amazing to me the degree of audience capture that some people have and how they seem to suffer 0 consequences for huge sins of omissions/commissions and outright lying.
Oh, Jack Turban.
When this gender stuff goes the way of recovered memories and multiple personalities, will Turban go down with the ship, or slink quietly away to emerge years later, pretending he never said all of the things he said?
There is a sentence in the Hannah Barnes screenshot that raises a lot of questions for me. 20% had changes in identity after surgery? Is there more detail available?
There is an abstract of findings: https://academic.oup.com/jsm/article/20/Supplement_4/qdad062.088/7220227
I don't know if it is published yet.
(237) LONG TERM FOLLOW-UP OF GENDER AND SEXUALITY IN EARLY TREATED TRANSGENDER ADOLESCENTS (de Rooy Frédérique et al., 2023, abstract): Dutch protocol long term outcome. 101 participants: “Transgender adolescents who started medical treat-ment between 1989-2000 and were treated with gender-affirming hormone treatment (GAHT), as well as transgender adolescents who received gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist and subsequently started GAHT at least 9 years ago" "In 81.2% the gender identity remained stable over time."
Thank you! Yeah, this abstract is pretty high level. I would think identity changes in almost 20% of the treated group would/could be really significant, but details needed.
Thank you for this great critique, with the contradictions and inaccuracies spelled out and documented. Why is anyone who has looked at this topic supporting the people pushing these interventions or the US policies for providing them?!??
Like a Monty Python figure who no matter what happens insists on his position, then once off the scene is decried as a “senseless waste of human life”.
He’s a member of the profession which doesn’t understand cutting off genitals to assuage a cross-sex mind spirit doesn’t work. Surgery didn’t work with trepanning, didn’t work with lobotomy, won’t work with something even more disconnected.
Psychiatry is the origin and propagation of this nonsense. Cannot be criticized, regulated or stopped.
you think Jack and others would get their own gender religion straight and not contradicts it’s Faith tenets to win arguments.
The incoherence is unavoidable.
If we back away from the conflict and dispute about gender ideology and simply state the situation in direct terms, we are talking about deeply disturbed children who want their bodies mutilated and healthy parts removed.
Why should this be regarded any differently from Body Integrity Identity Disorder, where people have convictions that entire limbs are cumbersome and want them amputated?
The framing of this self-evident malady (or cult) as civil rights or social justice is grotesque. Complicating it with vast and hastily accepted falsehoods is violently dishonest.
The only treatment for this fad should be psychiatric reconciliation with biological sex. Advocates like Michele Forcier belong in prison.
> "This young trans woman (biological male) started puberty blockers at 12, by this point is on cross-sex hormones ..."
"transwomen" -- compound word like "crayfish" which ain't:
Wiktionary: ".... However, [transwoman] is often associated with views (notably gender-critical feminism) that hold that transgender women are not women, and thus require a separate word from woman to describe them. For this reason many transgender people find transwoman offensive."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trans_woman#Usage_notes
HTH ...
But likewise with your "trans girls" -- the adjective-noun pairs are part and parcel of the rather odious fraud being perpetrated by transactivists and by various so-called "doctors".
In a similar vein (vain), the use of phrases like "gender affirming care" -- particularly without 24-pt scare quotes, and bracketed qualifications like "AKA: sterilization and castration of autistic and dysphoric children" -- are profoundly odious euphemisms masking what should be seen as crimes of the century.
No doubt "adults" are probably entitled to do that to themselves, but tricking children into "consenting" to such procedures is an absolute scandal.
You might note that a "social psychologist with a clinical background", Pamela Paresky, has now, commendably, taken to the use of such scare quotes:
https://paresky.substack.com/p/elon-musk-says-he-was-essentially?triedRedirect=true
You may wish to follow suit.